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Exclusive Interview with Frank Viola, author of
Jesus Manifesto
Restoring the Supremacy and Sovereignty of Jesus
Christ
 1. Frank, you are a
real present-tense guy sent to Reveal the Eternal Mystery.
How is life in the paradox?
Paul was uniquely chosen by God to reveal the "mystery
of the ages" in Ephesians and Colossians. Len Sweet and I are simply
bringing out what Paul wrote to a 21st audience and doing it
by using a lot of word imagery. Consequently, Jesus Manifesto
reads almost like non-fiction (the style is very right brain), even
though it's a fiction book based squarely on the Bible.
Jesus is the Ultimate Paradox as He is both human and
divine. The incarnation is "the absolute paradox" as one writer
put it. As such, the Christian life is very paradoxical - you have to die
to live, you have to give to receive, you must lower yourself to rise,
etc. Every Christian lives in this tension.
2. I am a champion of the Truth that Jesus
Christ is Reality for those in Him. In Him we live and move and
have our beings. In Jesus Manifesto you discuss the fact
that the real essence of humanity comes in walking in Jesus, the
quintessential human being. I love that. To what degree are
you willing to cop to being a mystic?
The word "mystic" is a clay word. It's been shaped
and molded by different people to mean very different things. You
can condemn a person with the word or honor them by it. I personally
don't like the words "mystic" or "mystical" because
they can mean so many different things, some of them very unChristian. So
I prefer the word "spiritual."
Our walk with Jesus is real. It is also spiritual. Jesus is
in the Spirit today, and He can be known and experienced. In this sense,
the Christian faith is mystical. Meaning, it's spiritual and real rather
than abstract and simply intellectual. Yet it is based solidly on the
testimony of Scripture and will not break nor violate what the Scriptures
teach.
I like what A.W. Tozer said about the word
"mystic," and I resonate with it:
"Some of my friends good-humoredly - and some a little
bit severely - have called me a 'mystic.' Well I'd like to say this about
any mysticism I may suppose to have. If an arch-angel from heaven
were to come, and were to start giving me, telling me, teaching me, and
giving me instruction, I'd ask him for the text. I'd say, 'Where's it say
that in the Bible? I want to know.' And I would insist that it was
according to the scriptures, because I do not believe in any
extra-scriptural teachings, nor any anti-scriptural teachings, or any sub-scriptural
teachings. I think we ought to put the emphasis where God puts it, and
continue to put it there, and to expound the scriptures, and stay by the
scriptures. I wouldn't - no matter if I saw a light above the light of
the sun, I'd keep my mouth shut about it 'til I'd checked with Daniel and
Revelation and the rest of the scriptures to see if it had any basis in
truth. And if it didn't, I'd think I'd just eaten something I shouldn't,
and I wouldn't say anything about it. Because I don't believe in anything
that is unscriptural or that is anti-scripture."
3. The scholarship in Manifesto sets a
very high standard. What is the mix or ratio of scholarship to
revelation that went into writing the book with Len, and how did the two
streams come together for you?
The book may appear to be scholarly to some only because it
has endnotes and we quote some theologians here and there, but it's a
very popularly written book and the reading level is quite low. We tried
to write it so that a high school student could understand it and absorb
its message.
We're finding that a lot of readers of Christian fiction
love the book because it uses a lot of imagery, word pictures, and
metaphors. At the same time, we quote theologians and philosophers to
make certain points and there is a ton of Scripture in it as well.
Revelation and scholarship go hand and hand. You can think
of revelation as insight that is revealed to our hearts by the Holy
Spirit. You can think of scholarship as that which is based in an
accurate interpretation of the Bible. So if revelation is really from the
Spirit, it will have the scholarship of the Bible behind it.
In our book, we are writing mostly to the heart rather than
the head. For this reason, many people have told us that they have wept
through the book and have encountered the Lord in a fresh way while
reading it. People can read some of the reader reactions
here.
4. How did the
revelation that you and Len were to expand beyond the online Manifesto
come? Better yet, what did Jesus say to you?
There was no audible voice or
vision. We just felt burdened by the Lord to write what was on our hearts
about the absolute glory, power, majesty, beauty, and staggering enormity
of our Lord Jesus and to give a clarion call to the church to make Him
absolutely central and supreme in a practical way. When we wrote the
book, our burden was released.
5. I love that Jesus
did not choose to be President of any Political Program, and He rejected
being appointed Grand Poo-bah of a Religion. The simple Truth that
His Kingdom is not of this world is powerfully and carefully portrayed in
Jesus Manifesto. We fell for a counterfeit reality called
religion and now need to repent. Frank, what is your leadership role in
this transition, now that Manifesto is published? What's
next for you in this initiative?
For the last 22 years, I've been
meeting in organic churches. I've been planting them for more than a
decade. These are churches that are very much like the New Testament
vision of church, where Jesus is Head and everyone functions according to
their particular gifts. They are churches that function as living
organisms rather than as institutional organizations (hence the word
"organic"). I've written about organic churches extensively in
my book Reimagining Church.
Jesus Manifesto contains a good bit of the message that I preach when
founding a church on Jesus Christ. According to Paul, Jesus is the only
foundation upon which a church should be built.
6. In Jesus
Manifesto you state, "...this church is a new polis."
We are a new race of people, however we seem to be a little schizophrenic
and believe that an old race of leadership, and worn out,
ineffective leadership systems can effectively lead this new
Jesus-population. What must happen to change this? Can you
describe some characteristics of a new breed of leadership? Who
will lead this Colony from the other realm?
True leaders are those who truly
follow Jesus. The role of a true leader, then, is to equip God's people
to know the Lord, to follow Him, and to function in ministry in a
corporate way. One of the things we take dead aim at in the book is the
zeal that so many Christians have to become leaders. "Leadership
principles" and "leadership training" has been put on the
throne, and Jesus has been made a footnote. Let's make our business
knowing Christ in the depths, and leadership which flows out of
followership will take care of itself.
7. A hard line, tough
love quote from Manifesto: "This is a profoundly
grievous misuse of the Bible." [To use the Bible as a recipe
book, a formulation and pat answer for God across all situations, across
time.] The implication is to make God predictable and
manageable by man. In the past two decades many in the Prophetic
Movement have made a similar misuse of the rhema/prophetic Word of
God. Much of the prophecy was self-aggrandizing---prophecies of
personal success, Swiss chalets, and world-wide apostolic
anointings. I take the liberty to re-phrase: "This has
been a profoundly grievous misuse of the Revelation of Holy
Spirit." I feel a personal mandate to return Prophetic
Ministry to the unadulterated Testimony of Jesus Christ. Frank,
what is your advice for this turn-around? What breed of leadership
will this require as you see it?
The Holy Spirit has one main job:
It is to reveal, to glorify, to magnify, and make real and living in
one's life the Lord Jesus Christ. All the arrows of the Spirit point to
Jesus. We show this quite clearly in the book.
True prophecy, therefore, will
always reveal Christ in some way. John said in the book of Revelation,
"the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."
What was the content of the Old
Testament prophets? It was Jesus. So today, when someone prophesies under
the Spirit's anointing, the content of their prophecy will reveal,
glorify, exalt, make known and living the Lord Jesus Christ. This truth
is often missed among certain movements today that have put
"prophetic ministry" on the throne instead of Jesus Himself.
8. I am excited to
see the impact of Manifesto---manifest! Can you give us any
early reports? How do you hope the book impacts the church and the
world?
Since its release, the book has
reached #6 on Amazon.com (the largest bookstore in the world which
carries over 9 million titles). This was rather amazing to us. The book
is in its third week and it's still the #1 Christian book on Amazon. We
are humbled and surprised, but very blessed that God has chosen to
breathe on the book. Thankfully, we get reports almost daily of people
who have been moved by the book and how it's caused them to see and know
their Lord like never before. Readers can learn more about the book by
going here: www.theJesusManifesto.com
Among other things, they can
download the two new worship songs that Christian artists recorded for
the book. And there's also a way for readers to SIGN THE MANIFESTO.
9. The church is the
expression of Jesus in the Realm of Earth, but currently only a very tiny
percentage of 'churched' Christians have any outlet for expressing Him
within the church walls. Something is very wrong with this
picture. Frank, what can take the traditional churches from the
paradigm of the one man show into the chaordic Voice like Many Waters
depicted in Revelation?
In Jesus Manifesto, we
don't talk about church structure. But I do answer this question in my
book Finding Organic Church. It's a complicated
situation, but it can and has been done.
10. Romans 8:19 is
the cry of my heart and no doubt Jesus' as well: "All of
creation groans for the manifestation of the sons of
God." All creation needs to see Jesus come in His Glory
through His people. Perhaps in the charismatic movement we have
wanted to see His Glory prematurely? Perhaps we focused on the
Glory and the effects upon us, rather than creating a New
Bethany---a community for Him. Did we look for gold dust before
giving Jesus a place to lay His head? Can you foresee a prophetic
Bethany?
In the book, we have a whole
chapter on Bethany. Bethany was a little village just outside the city of
Jerusalem. It was the home of Mary, Martha, Lazarus, and Simon.
Bethany was the only place on
earth where Jesus was received, loved, and where His needs were met.
Bethany is a picture of God's idea of what the church ought to be.
My main calling is to plant
churches that are spiritual Bethanies. Churches where Christ is supreme,
preeminent, valued, loved, known, and expressed by the whole body
together. So the chapter on Bethany is not theoretical; it's been my
experience.
I hope that such churches become
more prevalent in the future. Though I don't know that they will ever
become hugely popular because they run against human traditions and so
much of the world's spirit and framework, not to mention that they
challenge what the fallen self stands for. For those who are interested
in this kind of Christ-saturated church life, they may want to take a
look at our Mediography which contains many free
messages, articles, and resources. If they have iTunes, they can search
the CHRIST IS ALL podcast in the iTunes store and freely subscribe.
--
Frank Viola is a bestselling
author and the coauthor of the new book Jesus Manifesto with
Leonard Sweet (Thomas Nelson). You may order the book from Amazon.com,
Family Christian, or Barnes and Noble. Endorsements by Jack Hayford,
Francis Frangipane, Mark Chironna, Tommy Barnett, etc. For more
information, go to www.theJesusManifesto.com
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